Reflections on Traditional Grip

Every now and then during some down time at a gig someone in the audience or a fellow musician might ask why I don't use traditional grip when I drum. For me it's one of two simple answers: I don't like it or it doesn't feel natural to me. They are usually taken aback when I say that because they have seen several drummers (and I'm guessing some well known drummers) use traditional grip so that's when I shake my head and say that it's not natural to me because I am not playing a titled marching drum but a drum set with a snare drum that is flat. Still, the conversation continues because most of them have seen drummers use traditional grip while they play the drum set so I do what I can to give what I think are credible reasons for my choice to use matched grip.

Of course there are many who disagree with me and that's okay. It's all about personal preference and in this blog I will do the best I can to state my reasons for using matched grip while also pointing out my thoughts on the opinions that others have offered on both grips.

In The Beginning...

I started taking drum lessons during the spring semester of my 3rd grade year. My first teacher's name was Swede Meredith and he was not only a great teacher but also a professional Jazz drummer who had performed all over the world. At the time he had settled in the area to work both in the Los Angeles music scene and to pass on his drumming knowledge to the next generation of drummers, which at that time included me. He was also determined to get me to be part of the next generation of Jazz drummers so right away he had me playing traditional grip.

I would guess that my teacher was like the teacher that the great Thomas Lang had in his earlier days. In an article written by Dave Constantin in Drum Magazine Lang said that: I learned to play traditional. My teacher said, "This is how you play the drums." No argument, no discussion, this is it, So I did. 

I know the feeling at let's be honest about one thing that is true in many cases regarding those who prefer traditional grip: it is a faction of drummers who simply believe that this grip is more sophisticated. No argument. No discussion.  

The truth is, I never liked it. During my lessons I would do whatever Swede told me to do but when I was at home I was rocking to my favorite KISS songs and reviewed my weekly lessons using matched grip. I was also playing drums in my elementary school Drill Team as I was one of the drummers performing cadences for the girls during their routines and we also used matched grip. 

In my teens I started studying with my greatest teacher named Greg Alban and he was not only into more modern styles of drumming but also had me using matched grip. Now we're talking! From that day forward that has pretty much been the way I rolled and I have never looked back. Greg was also a very disciplined technician so I was able to execute any type of stroke at any dynamic level in any type of music. Therefore, Greg taught me to play with power & precision along with dynamics and speed and I did all of this using matched grip!

Let the Debate Begin 

Again, it's all a matter of preference and I honestly don't care what kind of grip any drummer uses. Heck, there are drummers out there who are rather sloppy with their execution but somehow make magic with their drums so who am I to say that they are playing incorrectly? I only have a problem with drummers who look at the way another person plays and says that they should use traditional grip, whether its directly or indirectly.

As stated in the same Drum Magazine by Constantin the author offered a common belief among traditionalists: There is a belief that an asymmetrical grip forces a different kind of communication between the hands, resulting in more creative interplay with the limbs. 

In my opinion, such a statement is not only nonsense but a huge pile of pretentious manure. Such a statement is based only in musical snobbery and not reality. Of course we also know that most drummers who use traditional grip come from the Jazz world so to be blunt: need we say more! Then again, here's a kind reminder that I had a lot to say about such arrogance in my last musical blog: http://desertdrummer.blogspot.com/2017/12/jazz-drummers-are-not-any-better-my.html

What does grip have to do with creativity? If that is the case then why play only one form of an asymmetrical grip? Why don't you flip both sticks around so you can use another grip while also leading with the other hand? Wouldn't that also impact your creativity? Or, why not use a reverse grip in both hands and open up even more doors to your creativity? After all, if one's grip impacts one's creativity that much then mastering multiple grips would make someone a drumming god! Again, pretentious nonsense. And what about your feet? Yes, there are different ways to play the pedal but no one has suggested that one flip their foot around in order to increase one's creativity with their feet.

PAH-lease!!!! 

First off, creativity doesn't just happen when you're sitting in front of your instrument. You can be walking down the street when a great musical idea comes to mind. What does that have to do with your grip? If you play multiple instruments you can be playing your guitar and come up with a cool riff and then hear a great drum beat in your head. Again, no grip involved here. And, sometimes the great idea comes from a band mate who suggests a great beat or a fill and that too has nothing to do with one's grip.

Another claim by traditionalists is the grip's, ability to assist in the sensitive execution of quieter passages. Once again, I disagree and I will use my favorite Buddy Rich drum solo clip to make my point. In this clip:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMhPHavgZ1E Rich does many of the amazing things that he is known for including playing with some amazing dynamics. Notice that when Rich does his famous deathly quiet single stroke roll (see 3:13) that his right hand is still in the overhand grip position so how is it not possible to do the same thing with the other hand? In other words, this traditionalist claim is easy to refute because their preferred grip is still a half matched grip and because the ability to play any instrument with sensitivity is also rooted in practice. 

The problem with grip as with so many other things in the arts is that we become emotionally attached to our methods, which at times leads to a closed mind. I too am guilty of this with my most recent updated opinion being on the choice of sticks that I use. For years I used wooden sticks because that's what drummers use. Then I was willing to try a pair of Ahead Drum Sticks and that was all she wrote. Sometimes such stubbornness can leads to opinions such as this one by the great Stewart Copeland:

"The whole point to using traditional grip is because it's the most efficient way to use your hand to hit a drum. You can hit 50 times harder with traditional grip than you can with matched. Matched gives you no power; you only use the muscles on the top of your forearm with matched instead of the big muscles on the bottom of your forearm with traditional. You can get a much stronger stroke that way." 

I love Copeland's drumming but I could not disagree with him more. First off, does reversing one's grip on the back beat hand increase one's power on their lead hand? No, one's power comes from the effort one puts into their playing as well as the efficiency of their motion. We can see in this clip that Copeland hits very  hard with both hands and that his left hand has no influence on the effort coming from his right hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMmCJ6-uu3M Second, in claiming that traditional grip is more efficient I would question the validity of that claim based on this famous photograph of him where he uses duct tape on his left hand.

In an interview posted on the interview archives of the Stingchronicity website Copeland said:

I used to wrap my hands in duct tape, but just last week I found some gloves and they're pretty neat, but they haven't got it quite right (for me) yet; at least someone is trying. This, unfortunately, is what happens after two or three gigs (holds up a pair with a worn-out thumb web in his left hand).   

Imagine what that would do to his hand had he not been using duct tape or wearing a glove. Of course this is also the hand where he uses a reverse grip, which makes me want to ask a simple question: if a grip is more efficient how could this be happening to your hand unless you are doing something physiologically wrong? And, why would such damage happen to his hand in the first place if reverse grip is that much better for gaining more power? It just makes no sense.   
Still, many traditionalists still claim that their grip is the correct grip and with that I credit Copeland for sticking to his beliefs even when he had to create his barrier to protect himself from any type of damage to his hand. Of course we can thank You Tube for exposing the hypocrisies of other drummers who aren't quite so consistent with their beliefs and in their blunt criticism of those who do something different than them.

Buddy Rich was never shy about saying that matched grip was (in his mind) incorrect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0V4Aqs2D48 But if you go beyond this video we will see that he is in fact inconsistent with his claim. With that I would also like to know why he would change his grip instead of being like Copeland and sticking to what he claimed to be correct.

Here we see Rich go against his own method while battling the Muppet Animal of all creatures (start at 1:48 and go to 2:36): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJh9W3Gcpmo Notice that he seems to do this while playing a loud figure that would require a bit more power and seems to be getting to the floor tom without any problem (remember, he claimed that one gets around the drums better using traditional grip). He also does the same thing at 4:56 in this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCLDX2FzPt4 during the fanfare where he is playing with again, more power so perhaps those who criticize traditional grip for its inferiority at producing the power capable of an overhand stroke are on to something. But Rich's inconsistency (don't forget, he referred to matched grip as being incorrect) went even further than wanting more power during this performance of Caravan (start at 0:52): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ug_fes1fEI So, will the correct grip please stand up and if it's so superior to other grips why do some of its apologists find themselves going against their own words?

Further, since we are talking about power here take a look at what some other legends do when they start pounding the drums and need that extra power. Let;s start with the late great Tony Williams and here we'll see how many times he switches to matched grip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkJoTY0GE8M and then we'll see Louie Bellson do the same at 4:42 when he tries to match Billy Cobham's power in their famous drumming duet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPYvRFKBX_g I wonder what Rich would have said about these two switching to the incorrect grip? Then again, it was for the same reason he switched, to get more power! 


Necessity is the Mother of All Invention 

As the debate continues it's safe to say that each grip and/or technique comes out of some type of necessity. For me it's nice to see it when these developments are used in ways that more or less justify their existence. While people make their arguments for their personal preference history tells us the the true source of what is called traditional grip:

With a snare slung awkwardly over one shoulder, the military drummer of pre-modern times needed to maintain complete maneuverability to perform his job with confidence. This was achieved by wearing his drum at a 45 degree angle with the head tilted towards his dominant hand. As a result, a unique grip evolved for the non-dominant hand to accommodate this angle. 

Therefore, if someone sets up their drums the way Rich does in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94DeieWZgTM then yes, traditional grip makes perfect sense. Now while someone may prefer to use traditional grip with any set up one should not be criticized for using matched grip if they have their snare drum set up the way Vinnie Colaiuta does in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBrSxoDvTAs because we can see Dennis Chambers at the same event with his snare set up in a similar way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmIEc5MyhoQ&index=3&list=RDuvCzft41Nxg having the same type of stick control as Colaiuta. Therefore, I ask someone to show me why traditional is the superior grip over matched. If anything, these videos could suggest the superiority of matched grip because Chambers can match any stroke Colaiuta offers while also having more power in his playing.

To further make my point on necessity leading to specific techniques let's take a look at this video by Steve Smith, which is also my favorite drum solo that he has ever played: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_T4YXhnveA The part I admire the most is from 0:52-0:59 because here he not only does the flashy one handed roll but does it with a purpose. His other hand is busy adding to the orchestration of rhythms so for him to play the figure he plays on the snare drum he needs to use the one handed roll technique. I personally have never attempted this technique not because I dislike it but because I just never had a reason to. But here we see how knowing this technique allowed Smith the opportunity to contribute to this amazing drum solo. For that reason alone I applaud his learning of a technique that some might dismiss as useless.


Conclusion 

However you look at it, does it really matter which grip someone prefers? No, the issue is how we look at others who might do something different from us. Why are we looking at their grip or even their body motion and not listening to their playing? I prefer matched grip but there are still intricacies within other schools of thought who also prescribe to this technique that differ from mine. For me, it doesn't matter. If your approach works for you then go for it. But if you start watching me and telling me that I am wrong in how I play the drums and you're not talking about something tangible like my timing then we have a problem. Every drummer has their own feel and our grip is part of what gives us our feel. But it's also something personal to us so while I think it's fair to suggest or recommend another way of approaching the drums don't sit there and judge someone in a negative way simply because of the way the stick in their back beat hand is positioned. Again, it's just pretentious nonsense. 

I would like to close this blog talking briefly about this amazing drum solo by Ginger Baker. This is the song "Toad" at it was performed during the Cream Reunion Concert where Baker played both World Rhythms and Jazz drumming in the same solo...while using matched grip! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIqa27Ml3jI Go figure! And while anyone is welcome to assess his playing how they see fit many Jazz heavyweights have already given their nod to this amazing drummer (see 1:14:32-1:16:10): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7h8CqYXEx0 so if anyone wants to challenge their expertise on the issue then be my guest because it would be nice not to be the bad guy for once.


Carlos Solorzano
@csolorzano18
https://www.reverbnation.com/carlossolorzano

Sources:

http://drummagazine.com/over-uber-why-thomas-lang-wants-you-to-forget-his-past/

http://drummagazine.com/thomas-lang-says-get-a-grip/ 

http://www.infinitedensity.net/music/copeland/Stingchronicity%20Interview%20Archive,%20Stewart%20Copeland%20interview,%20Downbeat,%20May%201984.htm

Jazz Drummers Are Not Any Better: My Take On Musical Snobbery

Well it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing is the famous title of the song released by Duke Ellington in 1931 as well as the point of view of various Jazz musicians when it comes to the thing that makes something musical. While I certainly respect their "subjective" point of view I don't agree with it at all. There are so many different types of "feel" to different types of music and no feel is superior to another. We all simply gravitate towards a genre of music or even a song that simply moves us. Personally I love Rock, Pop, Country, World Music, Progressive Music, Movie Soundtracks and will even admit as a drummer of all people that I like some Electronic music. I will choose which CD to take in the car on my drives to work depending on how I feel at that moment with every bit of music in my personal library being a great gift to me. After all, many people are surprised to find out that I don't own as many CD's as most music fans because I am very picky about the music I like. That's just the way I roll.

Honestly, traditional or straight ahead Jazz is a genre that I never really cared for. The first reason is because my father loved Latin Jazz so while some people want that swing in their music I want some Clave. I grew up listening to music by Tito Puente and Rene Touzet and we all know that Puente had arrangements of Jazz standards that I frankly found to be a lot more interesting than the original recordings. This is the kind of instrumental music I grew up listening to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB4iVzf10lY and aside from the amazing musical performances on the recording the sound quality is also pretty amazing. So, while some people like those distant sounding classic recordings I wanted clarity that one needs when you're recording multiple percussionists with a big Latin band. And, while some people like some of those out of tune performances Puente's arrangements were so good that they demanded perfect performances from each musician (hence the nickname he earned among recording engineers and producers, One Take Tito). Finally, if someone wants to question the absence of that swing I would dare anyone tell me that Puente's arrangements lack any type of rhythmic soul.

Aside from that I grew tired of those elitist snobs who were grouchier than a cranky grandfather who was annoyed by the neighborhood kids, which is why I stopped playing in Jazz combos many years ago (unless it's my band so I can decide who I play with). Finally, I also stay away from the Jazz scene because I prefer to have regular work and better paying gigs. I can't speak for other cities but my home town music scene of Tucson, AZ is as dry as bone both geographically and when it comes to the Jazz scene. So, you imagine how much crabbier Jazz musicians are here in the desert since they are already grouchy by nature and are without regular work.

Okay, that was my rant and to be honest my reactions were based both on my musical preference as well as too many negative experiences with Jazz musicians. During my music studies at El Camino Community College I was inexperienced with this kind of music and pretty much kept my mouth shut when those with the superiority complex unloaded on me. I knew that I was the weak link at times and had to do what I could to keep up because in most cases my grade depended on it. Sadly, this was a school and if there was a place to learn and make mistakes it was there.  Still, teachers and students didn't seem to care too much about that but thankfully I was able to get through it and learn all that I had to learn to succeed as a student and to prepare for work with many Jazz groups for many years to come.

At the end of the day I agree with songwriter Adam Mitchell when he says that all artistic awards are ridiculous because there is no objective criteria (see 1:15:32) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqTWqhqe0o4 I think this also applies to judging genres of music because one cannot predict whose work will have an impact on the world as a whole. Aside from not being a fan of Jazz I will go as far as saying that I despise Hip Hop. I may not care for Jazz but I would never say that it's not musical. Personally, I see NO musical merit in songs with pre-recorded tracks to the same old programmed beats with some fool talking trash over it. And, in Kanye West's case, the rapper is out of time with engineers who have obviously never heard of Pro Tools.

BUT!!!!!

I do respect the fact that there are music fans out there that have been moved by what they have heard in this genre and would NEVER try to take that away from them. I really believe this because I must recognize that I am not the only set of subjective ears that is taking in the music. It's like eating food. I hate tomatoes but that's not the case for others. However, while I respect one's preferred choice of music I will give them the same room that I ask for when it comes to sharing one's dislike or disdain for something be it the music itself or the attitudes and actions of those who create it.


What is the Criteria? 

Do you ever notice that people judge the validity of a musical form or a performer based on their preferred style? Take these comments by Ginger Baker when he compared his own playing to John Bonham or Keith Moon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Cf-s72hig Of course the Jazz drummer wants swing to be the main criteria for judging a drummer's playing but that's just subjective nonsense because there's more to drumming than swing. One would figure that Baker knows this since he also has a deep love for World drumming. Honestly, I think what irritates him the most is that his candid criticism of Bonham and Moon will do nothing to change the minds of those who love their playing, especially if it was the thing that inspired them to become a drummer. I am not a fan of either of these drummers' bands but I recognize the impact they have had on the music industry and know that they were great drummers since I have learned some of their parts for cover band gigs over the years. Further, if Baker wants to prioritize swing as the criteria for being a great drummer I would suggest he listen to any 12/8 groove played by Nicko McBrain on any Iron Maiden song because those grooves swing baby! However, I would guess that Baker would still dislike it because it's Heavy Metal and not Jazz! 

Now let's look at what I would call focusing too much on one style and show how it actually impairs one's ability to do the gig the right way. As a working drummer there are certainly times when I focus on one style of music because that's the one paying the bills at that time. Then I get another gig and while it's a style I have done before it's also something I may not have done in some time so it requires some practice on my part, that is, if there's time to practice. But, if you're about to be part of a big performance then you better be ready because you only get that moment to deliver the goods.

The first example of this point will be the classic trio performance from Act One of the first Buddy Rich Memorial Scholarship Concert, which featured Gregg Bissonette, Louis Bellson and Dennis Chambers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOfFzMHH5L8 No one doubts the beautiful swing feel in Bellson's playing that started the trio off or the funky shuffle groove that Bissonette started at 4:02 but, are we only supposed to look at swing and shuffle beats as the highlight of this trio's performance and if so, why? If that works for you then fine but for me I look for much more than that. When drummers get together I think it's also about the energy they bring so if that's the case, Mr. Chambers was in fact, the man when it came to who really brought it during this trio's performance. Once he joined Bissonette with the shuffle groove he more or less took over as Bissonette all but disappeared. We never really heard Bellson join in since the funk master's power had already dominated the stage before Bellson jumped in. Further, if you watch Bellson's body movement during this groove you can also see that this was not the type of groove he was used to playing but are you going to tell me that Chambers' beat didn't have any feel?

If you scroll down to the comments on this link there are those who preferred Bissonette or Bellson's playing and that's fine because we all have our preferred tastes. But to say that Chambers' performance was not good drumming is just ignorant. Chambers came to play and was the one who brought the most energy to this trio. One simply has to watch them trade solos and there was no contest. In fact, Chambers would have also dominated had he performed with any of the drummers from the second half of the concert (Vinnie Colaiuta, Dave Weckl and Steve Gadd) and mind you Colaiuta also went chops crazy during his solos. And if anyone wants to say that Chambers' playing was out of place keep in mind that this event was honoring a man whose solos were at times of a similar style to Chambers in terms of having a powerful presence and being able to wow the audience with intensity.

Fact: swing is not always the be all, end all of what makes something musical. Sometimes it is about attitude and power and if you're going to take such a gig you need to be able to bring it night after night. That attitude is displayed in lots of great musical genres such as R & B, Funk, World Drumming and dare I say it, Rock!

Take for example this clip from a Journey concert in Phoenix, AZ in 2016. I was at this show and can tell you that the classic song "Stone in Love" was not one of the highlights from that night. A musician friend of mine who was also at the show noticed what I am about to share right now: Steve Smith, the Jazz drumming legend who had returned to his old Rock gig appeared to be struggling on a song that he originally recorded and performed on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAHEG5IAGmc We all know that Father Time is undefeated so this performance really made me miss Smith's younger days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_zfDAOCT84 or the time in the band's history when Deen Castronovo had the gig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzmkZTFXOnU because after all, this is Rock and Roll and before Smith returned to the group Castronovo brought the power and attitude night after night. Be it age or the fact that Smith spent so many years after leaving Journey more or less focusing on Jazz, the drive in the groove just wasn't there. This certainly dismisses the myth that has been stated for years by many Jazz drummers that anyone can play Rock music. I disagree.


Noise Verses Expression 

Many Jazz drummers cite Max Roach as a drummer with great feel who played tasteful solos. This would make sense since he was also a composer, which meant that understood more than just rhythm when it came to creating music. He is also known as a master of the hi-hat and like Papa Jo Jones was able to take the stage on his own with just a pair of sticks and a hi-hat and perform a solo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHbqzX1zokk

Now this performance was certainly flashy and appealing to the eye, which is important at times because he is in fact performing with us knowing that dazzling the audience is part of a performer's job. But, how is this musical? Where is this amazing feel that people talk about when he is simply running up and down the hi-hat stand with single stroke rolls? I was actually somewhat disappointed that he didn't roll around on the floor or beat on the stage because this performance looked like something some drunken college student would do at a frat party. Meanwhile, how many Jazz drummers would look a drum solo like this one from the late great Eric Carr and say it's just noise?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x-76uU7kVA Sorry but I see nothing that Roach did that was superior to what Carr played other than the fact that Roach might have had nicer clothes than the Rocker stage outfit worn by Carr. But, at the end of the day I see both of them playing a lot of single stroke rolls. 

In my opinion, Steve Smith's performance with a hi-hat in this video is smoother and more creative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsrwwmJ6Mts but again, it's just flash and dazzle. It's fun to watch and would surely get a nice reaction out of the crowd but I still don't see a musical value in this solo feature. Heck, he even starts twirling his sticks at the end, which is very interesting to me because if he had long hair, wore spandex pants and had 10,000 people in front of him we know that Jazz snobbery would insist that such a thing has nothing to do with real drumming.        
                  
Perhaps someone might say, "Well, they're just playing a hi-hat so cut them some slack." Okay, then let's take a look at one of Max Roach's solos and for this discussion I chose the one called "Third Eye." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhdBW_siCFg because he is actually playing a foot ostinato under what appears to be improvisation with his hands.  I also chose this solo because of all of the You Tube comments praising Max's work. I will not take away the enjoyment anyone found in this solo but to me it's just a lot of noise. What does it mean to beat on the rim or the side of the shell? His phrasing around the drums is all over the place and as far as I'm concerned, he could use several lessons from El Maestro Tito Puente on what it means to have beautiful phrasing in one's soloing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTN39CIvR7A. All I see is that Roach came up with a somewhat interesting foot pattern and wanted to show off over this foot pattern. In my opinion, if you want to say something with your drums and do it over an ostinato then listen to this solo by drumming master Horacio Hernandez because he knows how to make the entire drum set sing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CimBeu4PWrM

Meanwhile, Bobby Rock's groove called "The Octopus" is criticized on this You Tube link for being a lot of noise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2upQV1Pnf0 when, in my opinion he is in fact doing something much more musical than Roach. Let's face it, the main problem for some is that Rock (I guess pun intended) is a Rock drummer with a massive drum set and long hair. It doesn't matter that his foot ostinato is more consistent and musical than Roach's. It doesn't matter that we see a consistent pattern with him using a lot of his equipment in a melodic groove. Finally, it doesn't matter that we can see how much practice went into creating this groove because after all, it sounds nothing like a neurotic child sitting at a drum set for the first time.

Now let's focus on grooving. This is where we hear the most comments about the great intangible element known as feel. To me there is a double meaning for the word feel when it comes to music. Feel is that magic one takes in when they hear Ndugu Chancler's performance on a song like "Billie Jean" or "P. Y. T (Pretty Young Thing)." It is also the intangible thing that most people turn to when they speak against the abilities of a drummer that they don't like because that person's skill is obviously beyond their skill or the skill of their favorite drummer  (think Baker knocking on Bonham or those hard core Dream Theater fans who prefer Mike Portnoy's feel over Mike Mangini when it is more than obvious that Mangini is a much better drummer than Portnoy).

Many Jazz drummers will knock on Rock beats with a special disdain being reserved for death metal beats that many would describe as senseless noise. First off, we're talking about a musical style of total aggression so it's not going to have that swing or appeal to most people out there including those who like Classic Rock. But, can anyone really say that this clip of George Kollias is not flat out amazing?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq5kFw1g-5I Does anyone know how long it takes to not only get this fast but to be able to do that consistently for say, a 90 minute gig?! Compare it to people who like certain sports over others. If you're a true fan of athletic performance you can certainly see the amazing athletic skill in an athlete of a sport you don't like. At that point it's not about one's favorite sport as much as it is about admitting the fact that an athlete is great at what they do based on what you see them do.

Meanwhile, I'm supposed to look at this up tempo ride cymbal performance by Tony Williams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDu6w66F5dU and say, Wow! That's amazing and so musical! I'm not saying that it isn't but how is that musically superior to the devil metal beat played by Kollias? I remember being in music school and drummers having that badge of honor when their ride pattern gained speed because we all knew the amount of work that went into it. I would argue that Kollias did even more work than a drummer that plays an up tempo beat (anyone is free to disagree) so for that alone he deserves the same amount of respect that Tony Williams receives. If anyone wants to argue that then I'll go back to the age old Jazz drummer claim that anyone can play that! Great, knock yourself out and show us. The fact is, any honest musician can be amazed at Kollias' performance the same way non-drummers could see the talent of the late Buddy Rich even if they didn't like the kind of music he played.


You're No Different

For those who have gotten this far because you haven't been turned off by my drumming blasphemies I thank you for respecting my opinions and for at least considering the fact that Jazz drummers are not the only great drummers out there. I apologize if I appear too hard on them but the point I am trying to make is that if you're willing to really open your eyes you will see that drummers in all genres are more alike than many of us choose to admit. It is simply snobbery that makes us think that one style is better than the other.

Personally, this drum solo by Mike Mangini: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe8XKgOuNtk is the most incredible drum solo I have ever seen! To be honest, I had only read some of his interviews and heard a couple of songs that he performed on when I first came across this video and at that time saw him as pretentious and lacking in so many ways. Truth be known, I had yet to hear some of his best work and this solo really opened my eyes. First off, his groove (even without that swing) was spot on and his drums sounded amazing. Second, his display of polyrhythmic prowess was beyond impressive because the truth is, very few drummers on this planet can execute the rhythms that Mangini does with what I call convincing efficiency. Finally, his technique was down right frightening. Most drummers wow us with their hand speed but Mangini was doing things with his hands and feet that were just mind boggling, and I'm not just talking about his speed.

Mangini's also had great showmanship, which made the solo fun to watch. His cross over patterns that took us to the final shave and a haircut figure was again, convincingly efficient because it was simply perfect...and dazzling! More than that; let's be honest here; how many drummers who have ever lived could actually duplicate this solo? If so, I can't wait to see the Mangini tribute videos on You Tube.

Now, did anyone check the comments? It's all technique! He has no feel! Here we go again. Well let me tell you something, many of your other drumming heroes that you claim have a great feel pretty much do the same thing over and over with a lot of it really only being a display of technique and not feel. Further, another dirty secret is that this improvised form of music is really not as created on the spot as you think. Thanks to You Tube we now have the truth. Let's take a look at this Buddy Rich solo and ask ourselves some honest questions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDu6w66F5dU

1) In this improvised form of music, how much of what we see in this clip is in fact the same thing we see in almost every other solo we find of Rich on You Tube? Come on, be honest? If you are willing to be honest then you will concede the point that a lot of what he did in this solo was the the same tricks he did for decades on end. 

2) When he's flying around the drums, doesn't it look a lot like the cross over patterns at the end of Mangini's solo? Single strokes everywhere, right? But of course, his (or Roach's solo) has much more feel. Ahem...yes, turn to the intangible argument again when you can't look anyone in the eye and say yes, Mangini, the man playing a Rock gig without a shirt on is just as amazing as our Jazz deities.

3) How much of it sounds more like a snare drum display than a full on drum set solo? Mangini had a lot of foot ostinatos going and soloed over these repeated patterns, thus having a much more orchestral drum solo. Further, give Mangini his due in terms of his hand technique the same way you would acknowledge Rich's amazing snare technique. Some would say that Rich was old school and that today's drummers built on what drummers did in the past. True, but these same people would also say that Rich could play anything, which is something I don't doubt because he was that good. Too bad he never left any of that behind. And, dare I say it...Rich also had drummers who influenced him because the fact is, no one is an independent artist.

4) Did anyone catch the size of the crowd during the over the shoulder camera shots at 2:10 and 6:32? If we compared that crowd size say to this crowd that Peter Criss played in front of at Dodger Stadium on Halloween night in 1998: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jBeKPeoSkk I can only wonder if that had any impact on Rich's and some other Jazz drummers' views on Rock drummers? Oh, and if you want to talk about feel, the Catman brought that to the thousands of people in attendance that night and I am proud to say that I was one of them. He also loved Jazz but was willing to play another style of music in order to make a decent living and retire in great comfort. Meanwhile, his Jazz background helped him execute those amazing tribal type grooves that he is known for that have influenced Rock drummers for over 40 years! Of course we never would have known that if he chose to just ding-ding-a-ding in half empty clubs instead of daring to do something different.

One last shot at the one that many call the greatest because to me, it's a response to something that is just flat out rude. In this particular clip Buddy Rich appears to be criticizing not only matched group but those who play Rock music. He does this by mocking a common Rock fill that is a simple set of single stroke rolls around the drum set. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0V4Aqs2D48 Meanwhile, if you watch him jamming on his drums after making such ignorant remarks he is more or less doing the same thing. How is that any different than a Rock drummer other than the fact that Rich was faster than most drummers and the fact that a Jazz drummer has a different feel than a Rock drummer (in this case there was no swing)? Rhythmically it's pretty much the same thing and one doesn't have to read music to recognize that. Oh, and let's not forget that many Rock drummers do their thing, again, in front of bigger crowds.


I'm Not the Only One

The most famous critic of Jazz is the great Stewart Copeland. Of course we know that the Jazz aristocrats will dismiss him as a no talented Rock drummer but we all know that this is far from true. This man's drumming has influenced millions of drummers around the world because he has a rhythmic vocabulary that was formed by his love for rhythms from all over the world. He also used part of his fortune to travel the world in order to hear these rhythms first hand and learn from the masters themselves, which is something I know I would love to do. He is also a very successful film & television composer and has even performs regularly with Stanley Clarke so his talent is unquestioned.

Here is a Copeland quote posted on the Organissimo message board by Guy Berger on 2/15/2007 that is both tongue in cheek as well as direct:

It's a fun party trick, but I am allergic to jazz. I was raised to be a jazz musician, my father was a jazz musician and I was steeped in jazz from the moment my ears blinked open, which is why I am immune to jazz. And my main reason why I love dissing jazz is jazz musicians. (me too Stewart) The problem with jazz musicians is that they are all crap. It's sort of like jazz is the refuge of the talent-less. If you really want to be a musician and you are prepared to really work hard at it, but you don't have the gift and you don't have any soul and you don't have any talent, jazz is what you should do; because all you need to do is just spend hours training your fingers to wiggle very quickly and you'll be a hero in the jazz world. Not so in blues. In blues you need talent, you need X factor, you need heart, you need to have lived a life, you have to have something to say, you need to be an actual musician to play the blues. Jazz, any fool can do it; all you gotta do is practice.

Here is an interesting quote from Jimmy M posted on 6/2//2007 on the Talk Bass message board where he in fact depends Copeland's point of view on the issue:

Look at you babies cry! Jazz musicians...the nice ones without any prejudices against any other kinds of music are few and far between. The vast majority of jazz musicians are smug a$$holes who feel their path is the only right path and anyone who plays anything else is inferior to them. They take blues and pop gigs because they can't get decent paying gigs playing jazz, then they spend the whole night talking about how the gig is beneath them. They have so little respect for anyone who likes to play simpler forms of music, unless of course it's them doing it for twice as much as they could make on a jazz gig.

And now Stewart Copeland calls them out for it, and listen to them squeal like pigs! "Waaaaaaaahhh! Stewart Copeland made fun of me! He's a rock drummer and has no business making fun of me! Waaaaaaaaahhhh!" Stewart Copeland is right. Jazz has become all form and no function. It's all about showing off how scary talented you are, and hasn't had anything to do with conveying real human emotion in a long time. So take it like a man, you wussies!

Wow! I think it's safe to say that my criticisms weren't as bad as these two but if you set the wrong person off this is the kind of response you get. Maybe Copeland is over exaggerating himself in order to get a specific response but I can't say that it hasn't been well deserved based on the actions of some Jazz musicians over the past several years.  Like Copeland I too have Jazz musician friends but they are the honest ones that Jimmy M talks about as they too admit to the bad attitude that many of their colleagues have. 

Of course bad attitudes exist in all circles of music. I love Rock music but don't play in Rock bands anymore because the business end of it is one of the worst I have ever experienced in my music career. Club owners, promoters and band mates are always looking for an angle to rip everyone off and I won't work with people who won't give people their fair share. This might lead someone to ask, then how can you listen to or support this kind of music? 

That's when I turn to my intangible argument: because I like the feel of the music, baby!
 

Carlos Solorzano
@csolorzano18
https://www.reverbnation.com/carlossolorzano